Hey Guys,
At this point you should've read the first 5 books of the Republic. Please respond to the following questions:
Why does Socrates object to the sophists and how does this objection relate to his philosophical position?
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In the Republic, Socrates’ challenge was to help define justice. Although he does not answer the question himself, others try to give their position only to have Socrates prove them wrong. The main group Socrates is opposed to is the Sophists, teachers hired to educate young men. The Sophists did not believe in “objective moral truth.” In other words, they did not accept that anything was completely right or completely wrong. They believed that it depended on the situation and consequences. It was virtually good if it worked to the advantage of the person doing it and wrong if it worked to the disadvantage.
ReplyDeleteSocrates believed that there was such thing as an absolute right and absolute wrong. He also believed that law was essential to exist while the Sophists believed that laws lead to injustice and inequality, benefiting those who made them. The “lower” people had to obey even if it was at their own disadvantage, leading them to do something wrong. Socrates argues that justice is needed and beneficial. Not only does it prevent total chaos, it is connected to the principles of morality and guides good judgment.
In "The Republic" Socrates criticizes the way society chooses to accept their moral truths. He challenges the poets Simonides and Homer along with the Sophists. The Sophists were educated men who you can equate with modern day lawyers. They were, in basic terms, men who were hired to teach you how to argue your point the best; whether right or wrong. But in ancient Greece they were teachers of knowledge who spent their time familiarizing the citizens of how to properly perform their individual duties in society.
ReplyDeleteThis relates to Plato's "The Republic" because Socrates in his teachings went against the Sophists with the feelings that these groups of men and poets were misleading the lay people. They stressed that the ultimate good came from the god's and the men with the most power. But this too is deceptive because the god's and powerful men were deceitful and conniving. In his teachings, Plato told of what Justice was not in order to show what the true truths were. Socrates finally exclaimed that the true good is seen in the aim of the "shepherd working for the good of his sheep".
In the Republic, Socrates didn’t agree with anybodies view on justice. Socrates disagreed with poets who people took them as certain truth. Socrates wanted to do away with justice, and show what truth is. Socrates also did not agree with the Sophists, who did not think there was such thing as absolute truth. They did not think that anything was absolutely wrong or right.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand Socrates felt that there is such thing as a solid right or wrong. He believes that we need justice in society. He also replies that the true aim of a shepherd is the good of his sheep. It is to show good and moral justice.
In the Republic, Socrates goes after the true meaning of justice. He went against the words of poets especially Simonides and Homer and those of the Sophists. The Sophists were men who taught other men how to argue best and wanted to do away with justice and moral values. The sophists tended not to believe in objective truths or that there were any universal right and wrongs. They instead believed that what was right and wrong depended on the individual and specific events. Socrates mainly argued with Thrasymachus, who believed that justice was nothing but the advantage of the stronger.
ReplyDeleteHis objection relates to his philosophical position because Socrates went after showing what justice was not, which instead showed what truth was. Socrates believed that justice was important in a society and that there were objective right and wrong things to do and not to do. Socrates wanted to change the way society saw what is good or just and actually define what “good” was.
Socrates believed in an absolute truth, in absolute right and wrong; this is the very opposite of what the Sophists' views were, so it is unsurprising that Socrates objects to their views. For the Sophists to believe that laws are always a burden to the lesser people and always benefit those who made them is hypocritical..aren't they more of a flip-flopping group, saying things vary due to circumstance? Laws aren't always just but they aren't intended to benefit the makers. Socrates believed in a resolute justice, a solid right and wrong, with no variation due to circumstance.
ReplyDeleteWhile Socrates strove for the truth, Sophists thought it was more important to win an argument than having the more truthful one win with their rationale of making the weaker argument seem stronger. Sophists believed that values were dependent upon culture and human opinion, but Socrates among other philosophers was searching for higher meanings than mere human opinions of value. Everything Socrates stood for, the Sophists represent the opposite.
In the Republic Socrates is trying to get his point across. He doesn't want people to just accept the way that society runs. He wants to build a strong central community that put the group first and not the individual. The Sophists argued their point to try and teach others the way to pursued people into believing or taking your view on an issue. In essence they were teachers of knowledge and taught the community how to preform individually to help the group as a whole.
ReplyDeleteSocrates objection relates to his philosophical position because he didn't agree with the Sophists teachings. They said to believe in God and to look up to the most powerful people. Socrates wanted all people to be equal and he told his government layout to his students so that they would see that money and wealth is not everything. In his society he wanted nothing to do with money and wealth, he wanted everyone to work together as one unit.
Socrates is portrayed in The Republic as opposing the teachings of the Sophists. This is because while the Sophists believed that right and wrong depended upon situations and personal perspective, Socrates believed in an absolute right and wrong. Therefore, while Socrates strove to define absolute justice and lay clear boundaries or right and wrong, the Sophist's took a more subjective view.
ReplyDeleteThis objection relates to Socrates as a philosopher because he believed that there was only wrong and right, with no middle ground open to interpretation. Socrates was constantly searching for a higher meaning that was more powerful and true than public opinion, while he believed that the Sophists decided what was good or bad based mainly upon who it affected and what other people thought of the situation.
In the Republic, Socrates opposes the views of the Sophists. The main fight was between the views on what is right and what is wrong. Socrates believed in absolute right and wrong, no excpetions. He believed more in strict morality and standards than the Sophists did. The Sophists believed that people could be right and wrong depending on what the situation was. Socrates believed more in virtue and morals than the Sophists did, an extreme disagreement between the two.
ReplyDeleteSocrates always tried to define good, bad, and justice as concrete, which meant absolutely no exceptions. Socrates disagreed with the Sophists because he thought the Sophists were more charlatans than actual teachers. The Sophists seemed like they were in it more for the money than actually helping people. In short, the Sophists defined right and wrong depending on who you were and what social class you were in.
In The Republic, there is an underlying theme of justice. Socrates engages in a discussion with Thrasymachus about justice. Thrasymachus is a Sophist, someone who is hired to teach the art of argumentation and rhetoric and also the type of person Socrates often disagrees with. While Socrates believed in absolute truth and that we can have this truth, Sophists did not. Sophists believe that you should engage in any behavior that will ultimately benefit you even it is unjust. Socrates means to battle this attitude by proving that justice is the core of the human race and wants to change the way society sees what is just.
ReplyDeletethe sophists have a subjective view on what justice is. they believe that if it benefits your own needs and if you can win an argument for your point of view then you are just. plato is searching for an objective view on justice. he believe that justice is somethings that reaches every person, wheather they are poor or rich, young or old. he asks questions to bring fourth discussion. in these discussions he asks more questions, which plato believes will bring fourth the real truth. through discussion, not argument or debate. the sophists believe that if you can win an argument than you are right, socrates knows this can not be true, so he seeks that true meaning.
ReplyDeleteIn the republic, Socrates objects to the sophists in order to help them to discover the true meaning of justice. Socrates, although doesn't completely understand his definition either, believes that with his theories and understandings, he can help the group to discover what the true underlying meaning of justice is. This objection relates to his philosophic point of view because it much about Socrates' point of view on whats is good and just in society, on education, and his beliefs on restricting the freedom of speech in poetry and art.
ReplyDeleteDuring Plato and Socrates' time Sophists were educators that would go from city to city and teach how to argue. Their opinions on arguing was that it was better to argue the right way,strategically, then to argue to pursue the truth. The reason why Socrates objects to them is due to the fact that he wants to find an objective view of justice and he considers the Sophists too relativistic with their opinions.
ReplyDeleteThe way that Socrates' objection to the Sophists relates to his philosophical position is that Socrates wants to find the truth behind his ideas. This is why he uses the sophists to show what justice is not and to better explain what justice is.
The Sophists did not believe in moral truth and more in a relative idea. They did not believe in law because it would inevitably lead to the injustice of its followers. They also believed goodness was relative. Socrates believed in law and absolute good.
ReplyDeleteThe greatest barrier between Socrates and the Sophists is their thoughts on the nature of "the good." We learn in The Republic that the Sophists believe that relativism applies to the good; in other words, what is truly good varies based on an individual's or a group's point of view- we define the good for ourselves. Socrates refutes this idea, as he believes that goodness is absolute. He claims that there exists a correct and universal definition of what is good, that applies to everyone. This sort of ideology (that there is an absolute answer) seems to appear in Socrates' philosophy often.
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