Hey Guys,
I was not able to put the movie online because the file was too large. Please post your thoughts about the movie, thus far... maybe some questions...
Also respond to the following questions:
At what place or issue does Aristotle draw his primary difference in thinking from Plato?
Is there an underlying theme in the Republic? Nicomachean Ethics?
Describe how "the good" is achieved for Socrates and Aristotle, what are the similarities and differences?
In what ways can you trace Socratic and Aristotelean Thinking in our modern society?
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I thought what I saw of the movie was good, but I was a little confused on which parts were like dream-sequences and which scenes were actually real.
ReplyDeleteI thought that the movie was poor but the underlying theme that I think they were trying to achieve seems to be the same as a major theme in the republic which is that it is beneficial to be just in your daily life even if it does not seem to benefit you immediately. In the movie the main character does not see how living a more straight edge life will pay off because he had everything he wanted while he was living recklessly.
ReplyDeleteThe movie was definitely different than most movies I watch in my free time, but I feel like it had a good message. "Socrates" was trying to teach the main character to live in the moment and live a just, happy life, it was just hard for him to see how beneficial this would be to him because he was already content with everything he'd already made for himself.
ReplyDeleteI also thought the movie was poor but i liked the message that it was trying to convey. The whole idea of "living in the moment" is very hard to grasp and thats what the guy, Socretes, was trying to teach the gymnast. He showed that if you always thought about what's going to happen next, you might just miss out on what's happening now. This idea also refers back to the republic and how its better to just live in the moment and find happiness.
ReplyDeleteI Thought that the movie wasn't too bad either. I'm a little confused on how a college student can instill so much trust in a stranger working at a gas station but I guess it could happen.
ReplyDeleteSomething that I picked up on that related to our class discussions was when the question "are you happy?" came up. This question and the topic of happiness has a lot to do with Plato and Socrates discussing the topic "what is a good life?" It was ironic that Nick Nolti's character was called Socrates.
I believed the movie was a little silly in some aspects and reminded me too much of the Karate Kid series but relayed some good philosophical messages. I also believe that the movie touched on the important topic of happiness and how to live a good life.
ReplyDeleteI really liked the movie, I didn't expect to enjoy it as much as I did. I think that it was trying to portray how cluttered our minds are with thoughts and worries that are unnecessary. Once we free ours minds we will be able to concentrate on what really matters, which I think is what "Socrates" was trying to communicate to the main character.
ReplyDeleteI thought the movie was very interesting but also strange at times. I didn't fully understand why what Socrates was trying to teach Dan would allow him to do things such as jump on top of buildings. I thought what Socrates did help Dan with was to see there was more to life than just being the best at something. He was teaching him to be fully present inorder to appreciate the things and people around him. I think Socrates advice for Dan to stop doing things that are harmful to himself and others is sort of similar to Plato's idea in the Republic of doing the just thing or basically, achieving "the good" for not only himself, but others as well.
ReplyDeleteThe underlying theme of the Republic is maybe education and I'm not sure about what the underlying theme in Nicomachean Ethics is.
I enjoyed the movie and while I agree it was very unrealistic, I thought it portrayed an important message. I agree with "Socrates" idea that our minds are cluttered with unimportant things. We spend too much time focusing on the past to really understand and enjoy the present. If we were fully present at each moment, only focusing on the here and now, we would achieve so much more. Also I liked "Socrates" emphasis on happiness. I think that often we do not really know what will make us happy.
ReplyDeleteThe movie was confusing. I don't think that it explained enough of what Socrates was doing for Dan. I realize that he was telling Dan to enrich his mind in order to help his body but it didn't really explain that enough for me to understand. I liked that Socrates made Dan realize that there is more to life than "girls and parties." It was perfect to what we have been talking about in class. It gives an example for how through education (mind and gymnastics) we can be a fuller, more virtuous person. The movie shows that perfectly.
ReplyDeleteThe difference between Aristotle and Plato's views is that Aristotle believes experience is the best way to learn and Plato said that education, specifically music/arts and gymnastics, are the best way to learn.
An underlying theme in the Niomachaen Ethics is happiness. Aristotle believes happiness is our ultimate goal and the thing to live toward in life.
I see Aristotle and Plato's views today by how we raise our children. Plato's view is that education of the mind and body is the best way to learn. We send our children to school in order to give them a knowledge of the basics in life such as mathematics and history. But then we put our kids into experiences, like Aristotle said, that will make them learn who they want to be, what they like, and how they want to act.
I thought the movie was pretty good. The underlying message in the movie was living in the moment and not thinking about the past or future, it is all about the moment. Socrates was trying to help Dan to find out what truly made him happy. Every time Dan was scared of the things Socrates did or told him Dan would just leave. When Socrates asked Dan was he happy, Dan couldn't answer. Dan then got in his motorcycle accident and thought that his life was over because he thought that he no longer had anything to live for.
ReplyDeleteI thought the movie wasn't that bad, but it was definitely confusing. I was lost on how "Socrates" became the man that he did. But i guess this could be because I did not get to see the resolving conflict at the end. But, it had a good underlying theme of the fact that "Socrates" as a philosopher should always be revered because not listening to him could result in their students being injured.
ReplyDeleteSocrates and Aristotle differed on a few things. one of the main differeces was their views on the ultimate good. Socrates spoke of the ultimate good as education for the people of Athens as a whole. Aristotle thought of the common good being centered around what you were going to do in the future and how your actions affected your ultimate goal. Aristotle thought that you needed to focus on yourself and spoke to the individual person whereas Socrates and Plato focused on the crticism of the whole body of people.
I thought that the presentation in the movie was pretty cheesy, but it was a powerful story regardless. Before he meets “Socrates,” Dan lived his life with a one-track mind, focusing all of his energy and actions on his sport. As a result, he is completely ignorant of all else that goes on around him every minute of every day. As Bill brought up in his comment, Dan does not even take a step back from his focus to assess whether or not his pursuits bring him happiness, which is reflective of Plato’s discussion of happiness in The Republic. Before his injury, I think Dan was heading towards the trap that Aristotle discusses in Book I of Nicomachean Ethics: he is pursuing an end (competing in the Olympics, which we can presume will bring him ultimate happiness), but neglects all of the possible means to that particular end. “Socrates” helps Dan to slow himself down, and to achieve supreme awareness of the self and his surroundings.
ReplyDeleteI’m not sure why the makers of this movie decided to make “Socrates’” abilities so profoundly supernatural (messing with Dan’s head, hearing other’s thoughts, etc.), rather than more realistic/tangible. That’s probably my biggest question about the movie thus far.
Also, are we supposed to post our answers to the other questions on the blog or bring them into class?
The movie has been really interesting so far. Although the whole concept of the man being a gymnast is a little far-fetched, the underlying issue of dedication, focus and living in the moment is important to understanding philosophy. It’s fascinating to see the modern-day comprehension of an ancient viewpoint. Reading the works are hard enough to understand so I’m glad the movie could clear some things up for me.
ReplyDeleteAristotle really pulls away from Plato in the Theory of Forms. He felt that learning was based on experience and not just observation. The best way to really understand something is to be put through it. I tend to agree more with his thinking because some people may make a different decision after going through something than they would before. For example, if, hypothetically, a cashier gave you back too much change, would you keep it? Many people would say they would give it back. But, if you really do experience it, you may wind up keeping it because that’s an extra few bucks in your pocket.
In the Republic, Socrates (and Plato) believes the ultimate good is to be just. They feel that doing good will lead to a fulfilling life. In the Nicomachean Ethics, Aristotle believes that the ultimate good is happiness. I concur more with Aristotle because Plato’s view seems too vague. Although a drug dealer may be using the money he gets to help his family, he’s still hurting other people by his actions. I guess you can use that against Aristotle’s beliefs as well, but he also includes the point that you can’t fully judge someone’s life, whether they were good or bad, until they die.
In modern society, Socratic beliefs can be seen in the government. He basically came up with the idea of democracy. Although he didn’t believe it was the most valuable form of government, he recognized that it worked well for all citizens instead of just a king, dictator or president. Also, his stress of the importance of education can still be seen. People go to school for a much longer period of time now than they used to. Most even expect to go on to college and graduate programs. The Nicomachean Ethics highly stresses moral standards and virtues. All humans follow some code of morality whether it is given to them by their religion or they make their own up. Either way, the main goal of this is to be happy in the long run.
The only problem I had a hard time with was discerning dream sequences from what really happened in the movie. Can “Socrates” really read others’ thoughts? Or was that just something Dan dreamt?
I thought this movie was a lot different then others in a couple of ways. First this was not a movie that you relaxed completely when watching it. There were times where you would have to stop and figure out what the character Socrates was talking about. Overall i thought the movie was very interesting and i enjoyed watching it.
ReplyDeleteso right when I clicked post comment the internet went out and I cried a little.
ReplyDeletePlato believed that the world could be understood by first understanding the universal truths first. Aristotle, however, believed in order to understand the world you must start with narrower disciplines which would lead to the universal truth.
I believe the underlying theme to the Republic is that education is key and a must.
Socrates believed heavily in having and following rules. In our current time many people of higher power believe rules are necessary. The good for Socrates is basically continuous education, thinking, philosophy, and following the rules that govern.
Aristotle believes there are different ways to reach the goal of goodness. It differs from person to person. Also he believes there is a continuous search for the highest good and that it is something you want, and that you don't want it for the sake of others.
I enjoyed the movie and thought it was very interesting. The message that was developed in the movie between the college gymnast and "Socrates" was a good and beneficial one. The point "Socrates" made was for the gymnast to "live in the moment" and to figure out what makes him truly happy by eliminating the parts of his life that the gymnast had thought made his life happy. The gymnast had to realize that he didn't know everything and he had to earn what he wanted; it was not going to just happen.
ReplyDeleteAristotle mainly differs from Plato about the Theory of Forms. Aristotle rejects Plato's theory as false and believes it doesn't exist.
In the Republic, the main theme is finding objective values such as justice and the creation of a city. Socrates believed that justice was the only path to prosperity and happiness or "good". In Nichomachean Ethics Aristotle believed that the ultimate good was happiness and that the "good life" meant that a person was happy. To do this a person must live virtuously.
Aristotle and Plato differed on metaphysical issues. He disagreed with Plato’s Theory of the Forms, which states that it is Forms or Ideas that are the most important reality not the material world of change. A form is abstract property or quality. They are also pure and ultimately real. Plato and Aristotle also disagree on poetry. While Plato feels that poetry is corrupted and is a poor representation of truth, Aristotle feels that children can learn from it and that they should not avoid it. Plato feels that children should learn from truth and not representation whereas Aristotle feels that representation can teach children about reality.
ReplyDeleteSome key underlying themes in The Republic are justice and education. The book begins by attempting to define justice and an ideal community. After many debates this proves to be a difficult task. Next as the dialogue progresses, it discusses the importance of education. I think the underlying theme for Nicomachean Ethics is happiness because that is Aristotle’s ultimate goal. People need to discover what ultimately makes them happy. Also I think it touches on what it is to be a good human.
I think that for Plato, the good is achieved through education. By having someone be educated they can achieve a greater knowledge. Plato felt that education was necessary to create a just city and therefore ultimately achieve the good. I think that for Aristotle, the good is achieved through happiness. Ultimately in doing what makes you happy you can benefit others. It is about becoming the best you can be at what you do. In this sense you are achieving the good.
I think that Socratic thinking and Aristotelean Thinking are seen in modern society because philosophy affects everything we do and think. The question of what is just and good is still being debated in court rooms. Judges are always trying to define justice. On an everyday scale, everyone ultimately wants to be happy and tries to discover what happiness really is.
I thought the movie is very interesting. It explores the difference between knowledge and wisdom, the power of the mind and the importance of a positive life style. Through the character of Dan, we see that the true way of the peaceful warrior is through self determination and commitment.
ReplyDeleteAristotle draws his primary difference in thinking from Plato when it comes to the discussion of forms. Forms are both ideals and non ideals that help answer philosophical questions such as: What are the objects of knowledge? What things are real? Are there objective moral truths? And what is it that we grasp when we understand something? Aristotle criticized Plato’s theory of forms and believed that knowledge is imminent rather than transcendent.
The underlying theme in Plato’s The Republic is the theme of how to build a perfect state. Through the use of dialogue, logic, irony and critical questioning, he summons certain ideals that society needs to uphold a state. Two particular he indulges in are justice and education. The theme of Aristotle’s Nicomachean Ethics are of virtue and happiness. Aristotle attempts to answer what it means to be a good human being and how happiness is a life of virtuous activity.
To Aristotle, the “good” which he believes is the aim of all thing, is achieved through living a happy life. To Socrates, the “good” is attaining knowledge and enlightenment. They both believe that finding “good” is important to each individual.
Socratic and Aristotelean thinking is still practiced in today’s society. As long as you are willing to enter into a dialogue openly and honestly about life and values, you are giving respect to the ancient philosophers.
Aristotle believes that you learn by doing and making mistakes. Just hearing people talk about it is not enough; you need to experience it for yourself. And Plato believed that education, learning and understanding concepts is the best way to learn and be prepared for situations and events that are going to happen.
ReplyDeleteThe underlying theme in the republic is that it pays off to be just. Plato wanted to show that justice is worthwhile and you should be just to help society as a whole. And the underlying theme in the Niomachaen Ethics is to be happy. Aristotle believed that everyone has a goal to be happy and people will do whatever they can to be happy.
"The good" is achieved by Socrates and Aristotle because they are all living for the better of the community as a whole and not individual wealth. If people work together and live for their community, everyone will be happy in the end.
Plato believes in education and education starts at a very young age in today’s society. It used to be the wealthy young men that were educated. Now millions and millions of people are educated every day. Parents send their kids to school in order for them to learn knowledge that will help them make smart decisions and so that hopefully one day they can live better than their parents did. On the flipside, children are put into situations very young that will help them learn through experience as Aristotle’s view. Some will make the right choice and others will make the wrong choice depending on how much they have learned and who they want to be known as.
I thought the movie was a little boring. I thought the acting could have been better. It was hard to see a message or a direction the movie was going in. the kid didn’t learn one thing from Socrates it seems. And why was he speeding through that intersection? What Socrates was trying to teach him was interesting. Maybe the end will pull everything together.
ReplyDeleteAristotle learns through discussion and questions, similarly to plato but they also differ. He believes that the only way to truly know or learn something is to experience it for yourself. Plato believed that education necessary. He stressed learning and understanding concepts and morals. He thought this was the best way to live your life.
The theme in Plato’s The Republic how we can build a perfect state. Through discussion, and questioning, he reveals certain truths about what justice is. He also stresses the education of certain morals that will uphold a just state. The theme of Aristotle’s Nicomachean Ethics is attempting to define the good in people. What it means to be good. Aristotle attempts to explain how happiness is the core virtue of the good.
To Aristotle, the “good” is achieved when we live happy lives, because at our hearts we are all good. To Socrates, the “good” is attaining knowledge and enlightenment. They both believe that every person is entitled to the good and they strive to help people reach that.
Socratic and Aristotelean thinking utilized a lot today. Sometimes it seems people underutilize it but many people engage in calm discussions and use questioning to bring truth out. A lot of what they did has become common practice today.
The Peaceful Warrior did an excellent job at relating the teachings of ancient philosophers to aspects of our modern day society. Although it was strange that Dan (the gymnast) continued to seek training from a gas station attendant, their whole relationship made it easy to understand the relationship between Socrates and Plato. The film did a great job of depicting Socrates' methods of teaching. You were given the sense that he was always in control and knew the right answer even when he said he didn't and forced Dan to figure out things on his own.
ReplyDeleteThe primary difference between the style of thinking between Aristotle and Plato is that Aristotle learns based on others. He asks questions and takes in answers from which he develops his own specific thoughts and beliefs. Plato on the other hand believed that education was the primary form of thinking and knowledge. In order to clearly understand and develop accurate ideas, it is imperative to first become educated.